9/15 days jigging/popping trip on the Excel from Jan 22 to Feb 6, 2013 - Page 5 - Saltwater Fishing Discussion Board Including Inshore Fishing, Offshore Fishing, Saltwater Fly Fishing and Kayak Fishing
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Old 08-28-2011, 12:49 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Default re: 9/15 days jigging/popping trip on the Excel from Jan 22 to Feb 6, 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodless_Jim
Quote:
Originally Posted by JigGrinder
Yeah you are right man, spinning reels are the real deal when LR fishing for cow YFT... what the **** was I thinking anyway, they are even endorsed by expert LR fisherman like "Doc John Tuttle" as well so how could you possibly go wrong using one.

Have FUN knocking em dead guys, I truly hope you get into the larger cow grade YFT on this trip... can't wait to see your photos and live action videos via the Excel's new internet service.

I'll check back for a trip update in about 17 months.

Tight lines!
Out of curiosity, from where does your anger spring? I mean you are really taking this whole idea very personally, and it makes no sense. Do you design conventional reels? Or sell them? Have you lost the fish of a lifetime because somebody with a spinning reel cut you off? Is it because real anglers use conventionals?

Why does the concept of this trip take any skin at all off of your nose?

I asked to be included on the list for this trip. I hope to be able to go, and I will plan on it. When I show up at the dock, I won't have a single spinning reel in my collection. Not one. I'll probably have some jigs and poppers, but even on a trip such as this, I mostly plan to use conventional gear to fish live bait. If I decide I want to try fishing a spinner, I'm sure someone will lend me one to try. And if my fishing bait doesn't bother the artificials anglers, why should their fishing jigs and poppers bother me?

Your repeated rants may have convinced some other here, but they only eat up spce as far as I am concerned. Why do you care how others fish, and why should they care about your opinion?

Of course I have doubts about the trip, but mine have much more to do with fishing time. I like the idea of going in and out of Cabo, because that should theoretically mean less travel time to the fishing grounds, and (hopefully!) more time fishing. That is what attracts me to this trip to begin with, along with the FANTASTIC people who are lining up to go. It sounds like an awesome bunch and a great trip. What worries me and makes me think is what other people have said in this thread about the timing. If it really does take so long to get from Cabo to Clarion or the Hurricane Bank, then my assumptions about less travel time might be true, but there will also be much less fishing time than I would like. That would be the one thing that would make me decide to do a different trip.

Your pointless complaining about people trying to catch big tuna on spinning reels? You realize that people have only responded to you out of courtesy right? It's not like you have convinced anyone of anything...except that you are an angry guy who hates spinning reels.
Good for you.

Now can we get back to discussing the trip please?


Many people feel that fishing for big tuna with spinning gear is nothing more then stunt fishing. That giant tuna that was landed on a spinner is making people cringe because now a whole army of guys from all over the globe could potentially descend on giant tuna spots like pei, gloucester ma etc trying to catch one with spinning tackle. The result will be a bunch of fish trailing hundreds of yards of line and probably end up dying while they "test" their equipment. I am sure a few will be caught, but who knows. I am sure some feel the same way about doing this with big yellowfins, but the poster even said he is not going to target the real large fish....in all honesty, there are people that love this trend and there are many, many people that absolutely despise people from other countries descending on their fishing spots armed to the teeth with spinning tackle and fishing uniforms. It drives folks nuts. Please keep in mind that there is a lot of jealousy involved as well. The circle of guys that post on the internet on east coast and west coast boards about jigging and popping are well to do folks that can spend 50-100 grand or more a year traveling the globe then posting reports about it. That drives guys insane. It leads to finger pointing, keeping up with the joneses etc. I have had many conversations about this with alot of guys...I would say the opinions are split down the middle. Some love it, some hate everything about it... time will tell the whole story...will this be a permanent trend in big game fishing or just a footnote...depends on technology and technique I guess... I have no opinions either way, but I do feel that nobody has a right to tell someone else how to enjoy fishing. If it is done responsibly and people are not just out there hooking fish after fish only to get spooled, just so they can get a couple hero shots with a rod in their mouth for the computer, then I say go for it, enjoy, and the best of luck.
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Old 08-28-2011, 01:01 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Default re: 9/15 days jigging/popping trip on the Excel from Jan 22 to Feb 6, 2013

"There is another trip on the Excel's schedule that intrigues me, one I hope to be able to take someday. especially if I don't get another chance to fish the Big E before then. That is the Ralph Mikklesen Big Fish Special, which is a 17-day trip. That sounds like exactly the trip I'd want to take if I can be away from the office for three weeks. I would like to be on it in April 2012, but that may not be possible."

Lots of good trips on the XL. Having fished almost 40 trips on the boat since November 1991, let me know if you need any additional info to help you make your decision.
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Old 08-28-2011, 01:13 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Default re: 9/15 days jigging/popping trip on the Excel from Jan 22 to Feb 6, 2013

I might agree with you, "Rodless", on the technical aspects of
your "opinion"..............but!
I also feel that those with a different opinion than your's have the right to express them............it's an old American tradition.

The idea of popping/jigging is a method of fishing only.
Some might feel it's "purity" of the sport.
But, the main issue's are safety of flying hooks around a crowded boat, and that existing customers, and fellow fishermen are not
elbowed off the rail because of it.
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Old 08-28-2011, 01:18 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Default re: 9/15 days jigging/popping trip on the Excel from Jan 22 to Feb 6, 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodless_Jim
Quote:
Originally Posted by JigGrinder
Yeah you are right man, spinning reels are the real deal when LR fishing for cow YFT... what the **** was I thinking anyway, they are even endorsed by expert LR fisherman like "Doc John Tuttle" as well so how could you possibly go wrong using one. Have FUN knocking em dead guys, I truly hope you get into the larger cow grade YFT on this trip... can't wait to see your photos and live action videos via the Excel's new internet service. I'll check back for a trip update in about 17 months. Tight lines!
Out of curiosity, from where does your anger spring? I mean you are really taking this whole idea very personally, and it makes no sense. Do you design conventional reels? Or sell them? Have you lost the fish of a lifetime because somebody with a spinning reel cut you off? Is it because real anglers use conventionals? Why does the concept of this trip take any skin at all off of your nose? I asked to be included on the list for this trip. I hope to be able to go, and I will plan on it. When I show up at the dock, I won't have a single spinning reel in my collection. Not one. I'll probably have some jigs and poppers, but even on a trip such as this, I mostly plan to use conventional gear to fish live bait. If I decide I want to try fishing a spinner, I'm sure someone will lend me one to try. And if my fishing bait doesn't bother the artificials anglers, why should their fishing jigs and poppers bother me? Your repeated rants may have convinced some other here, but they only eat up spce as far as I am concerned. Why do you care how others fish, and why should they care about your opinion? Of course I have doubts about the trip, but mine have much more to do with fishing time. I like the idea of going in and out of Cabo, because that should theoretically mean less travel time to the fishing grounds, and (hopefully!) more time fishing. That is what attracts me to this trip to begin with, along with the FANTASTIC people who are lining up to go. It sounds like an awesome bunch and a great trip. What worries me and makes me think is what other people have said in this thread about the timing. If it really does take so long to get from Cabo to Clarion or the Hurricane Bank, then my assumptions about less travel time might be true, but there will also be much less fishing time than I would like. That would be the one thing that would make me decide to do a different trip. Your pointless complaining about people trying to catch big tuna on spinning reels? You realize that people have only responded to you out of courtesy right? It's not like you have convinced anyone of anything...except that you are an angry guy who hates spinning reels. Good for you. Now can we get back to discussing the trip please?
Enjoy the trip Rodless one, I sincerely hope you hook a cow YFT on the spin reel providing that rush and fishing experience of a lifetime, hopefully you can land a cow YFT or two on the spin gear (something very few LR anglers have done... so quite an accomplishment for sure!). Good people and good times for all... it is just fishing so have FUN and be safe cuz that is what it is truly all about. Sorry that my pointless comments offended you or others, I wont be posting anymore thoughts on "conventional wisdom" or boring design differences details so no worries there... everyone eventually finds their own way through personal trial and error... so go the way you see best, or the most thrilling, or the most challenging... it's your game man. Keep us posted on your successes and/or failures, I have asked the web host to cancel my account here so just occasional spectating from here on out for me. Tight lines! (Over and Out)

This post edited by JigGrinder 08/28/2011
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Old 08-28-2011, 01:48 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Default re: 9/15 days jigging/popping trip on the Excel from Jan 22 to Feb 6, 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by t4freds
I might agree with you, "Rodless", on the technical aspects of
your "opinion"..............but!
I also feel that those with a different opinion than your's have the right to express them............it's an old American tradition.

The idea of popping/jigging is a method of fishing only.
Some might feel it's "purity" of the sport.
But, the main issue's are safety of flying hooks around a crowded boat, and that existing customers, and fellow fishermen are not
elbowed off the rail because of it.
Bob, you know better than that. I have always been all about people expressing their opinions. Doesn't matter if I agree with them or not. It is the suppression of ideas and innovation that bother me.

I wasn't suppressing anyone's opinion here, not JigGrinder's or anyone else's. I just asked---honestly---why he gets so angry thinking about people fishing spinners for big fish. And it's clear he is angry. I just don't see any cause for it.

As for people being elbowed off the rail, that's a hard one to say. Excel is the largest boat, with the most rail space. Plus, if you have seen the madhouse that ensues when the entire boat is throwing jigs for wahoo, it's hard to envision how a few people throwing poppers can either be a danger or can occupy too much room.

But that wasn't what JigGrinder was saying. He was expressing his sarcastic opinion repeatedly, determined to belittle a specific kind of fishing. It's a trip he won't be on, so I can't see why the idea offends him so much. Clearly it does, though, so I asked him why.
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Old 08-28-2011, 02:24 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Default re: 9/15 days jigging/popping trip on the Excel from Jan 22 to Feb 6, 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakey520
Many people feel that fishing for big tuna with spinning gear is nothing more then stunt fishing. That giant tuna that was landed on a spinner is making people cringe because now a whole army of guys from all over the globe could potentially descend on giant tuna spots like pei, gloucester ma etc trying to catch one with spinning tackle. The result will be a bunch of fish trailing hundreds of yards of line and probably end up dying while they "test" their equipment. I am sure a few will be caught, but who knows. I am sure some feel the same way about doing this with big yellowfins, but the poster even said he is not going to target the real large fish....in all honesty, there are people that love this trend and there are many, many people that absolutely despise people from other countries descending on their fishing spots armed to the teeth with spinning tackle and fishing uniforms. It drives folks nuts. Please keep in mind that there is a lot of jealousy involved as well. The circle of guys that post on the internet on east coast and west coast boards about jigging and popping are well to do folks that can spend 50-100 grand or more a year traveling the globe then posting reports about it. That drives guys insane. It leads to finger pointing, keeping up with the joneses etc. I have had many conversations about this with alot of guys...I would say the opinions are split down the middle. Some love it, some hate everything about it... time will tell the whole story...will this be a permanent trend in big game fishing or just a footnote...depends on technology and technique I guess... I have no opinions either way, but I do feel that nobody has a right to tell someone else how to enjoy fishing. If it is done responsibly and people are not just out there hooking fish after fish only to get spooled, just so they can get a couple hero shots with a rod in their mouth for the computer, then I say go for it, enjoy, and the best of luck.
"Stunt fishing?" Interesting idea. I have caught some pretty big fish using a fly rod, fish you're not supposed to be able to catch on such light line. Is that stunt fishing?

Actually, I have fished several times with a man who adores catching billfish, which in his case are mostly Atlantic sailfish. He is a VERY wealthy man, and has had a series of fishing yachts. He goes to Cancun every year for the season, and his schtick is to catch sailfish on as light line as possible. His best is on 10lb line. To me, THAT is stunt fishing. The boat backs down on the fish, and the angler reels in the slack. The IGFA doesn't prohibit this method, though. It is a recognized way to catch billfish.

I get what you say about people who don't like "outsiders" coming onto their fishing grounds, using different methods to catch fish. Heck, I've seen a lot of anglers get angry over much less serious things. And there is a part of Western culture that looks askance at the way people from other cultures do things. Yeah, having uniforms to fish in seems a little out there, even to me---and I have lived in Asia---but it seems only right and natural if you are Japanese. And I can't really talk, because I typically wear "Performance Fishing Gear" by Columbia on long range trips. The shirts are the lightest, most comfortable I have ever found, and they protect me from the sun. I must own 8-10 of them now, and I am not ashamed to wear them. Even if they are in different colors, isn't that kind of like wearing a uniform? OK, maybe not quite, but still...

One point with which I need to take issue, though. Even today's high-tech hooks rust out of a fish's mouth pretty quickly. Ghost nets catch and kill thousands of fish every year, but darned few pelagic fish die because they swim for a few days with a long stretch of line behind them in the water. It may be true that many of the anglers who hook big fish on spinning reels get spooled. Maybe not as many as you think, but even if it is that many, they are not killing fish. They may be wasting huge sums of money, of course, and they may infuriate other anglers. I can't really speak about that.

Anyway, point taken.
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Old 08-28-2011, 02:39 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Default re: 9/15 days jigging/popping trip on the Excel from Jan 22 to Feb 6, 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by JigGrinder
Enjoy the trip Rodless one, I sincerely hope you hook a cow YFT on the spin reel providing that rush and fishing experience of a lifetime, hopefully you can land a cow YFT or two on the spin gear (something very few LR anglers have done... so quite an accomplishment for sure!).

Good people and good times for all... it is just fishing so have FUN and be safe cuz that is what it is truly all about.

Sorry that my pointless comments offended you or others, I wont be posting anymore thoughts on "conventional wisdom" or boring design differences details so no worries there... everyone eventually finds their own way through personal trial and error... so go the way you see best, or the most thrilling, or the most challenging... it's your game man.

Keep us posted on your successes and/or failures, I have asked the web host to cancel my account here so just occasional spectating from here on out for me.

Tight lines!

(Over and Out)
I can't understand why this would make you pull your registration here. I feel like I asked a reasonable question: why does this idea anger you so much? I would still very much like an answer. Oakey offered a partial one, but you are the poster who has been the most insistent. It almost seems like you feel that Long Range boats should prohibit using spinning tackle, and that all true long rangers should shun and boycott the anglers and boats that engage in such activity.

Sarcasm arises from anger and frustration, and yours is obvious. So why does this annoy you so?

Oh, and by the way, you really misread at least one part of my post. I said that if I get to go on the trip, I DO NOT plan to fish spinning reels. I won't have any with me. I plan to use conventional setups to fish live bait. Your "good wishes" don't seem to apply.

I repeat, I don't think you should leave the board. I am not trying to marginalize your opinion. I am just trying to point out that your attitude seems a bit intolerant, and perhaps not justifiably so.
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Old 08-28-2011, 03:02 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Default re: 9/15 days jigging/popping trip on the Excel from Jan 22 to Feb 6, 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodless_Jim
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakey520
Many people feel that fishing for big tuna with spinning gear is nothing more then stunt fishing. That giant tuna that was landed on a spinner is making people cringe because now a whole army of guys from all over the globe could potentially descend on giant tuna spots like pei, gloucester ma etc trying to catch one with spinning tackle. The result will be a bunch of fish trailing hundreds of yards of line and probably end up dying while they "test" their equipment. I am sure a few will be caught, but who knows. I am sure some feel the same way about doing this with big yellowfins, but the poster even said he is not going to target the real large fish....in all honesty, there are people that love this trend and there are many, many people that absolutely despise people from other countries descending on their fishing spots armed to the teeth with spinning tackle and fishing uniforms. It drives folks nuts. Please keep in mind that there is a lot of jealousy involved as well. The circle of guys that post on the internet on east coast and west coast boards about jigging and popping are well to do folks that can spend 50-100 grand or more a year traveling the globe then posting reports about it. That drives guys insane. It leads to finger pointing, keeping up with the joneses etc. I have had many conversations about this with alot of guys...I would say the opinions are split down the middle. Some love it, some hate everything about it... time will tell the whole story...will this be a permanent trend in big game fishing or just a footnote...depends on technology and technique I guess... I have no opinions either way, but I do feel that nobody has a right to tell someone else how to enjoy fishing. If it is done responsibly and people are not just out there hooking fish after fish only to get spooled, just so they can get a couple hero shots with a rod in their mouth for the computer, then I say go for it, enjoy, and the best of luck.
"Stunt fishing?" Interesting idea. I have caught some pretty big fish using a fly rod, fish you're not supposed to be able to catch on such light line. Is that stunt fishing? Actually, I have fished several times with a man who adores catching billfish, which in his case are mostly Atlantic sailfish. He is a VERY wealthy man, and has had a series of fishing yachts. He goes to Cancun every year for the season, and his schtick is to catch sailfish on as light line as possible. His best is on 10lb line. To me, THAT is stunt fishing. The boat backs down on the fish, and the angler reels in the slack. The IGFA doesn't prohibit this method, though. It is a recognized way to catch billfish. I get what you say about people who don't like "outsiders" coming onto their fishing grounds, using different methods to catch fish. Heck, I've seen a lot of anglers get angry over much less serious things. And there is a part of Western culture that looks askance at the way people from other cultures do things. Yeah, having uniforms to fish in seems a little out there, even to me---and I have lived in Asia---but it seems only right and natural if you are Japanese. And I can't really talk, because I typically wear "Performance Fishing Gear" by Columbia on long range trips. The shirts are the lightest, most comfortable I have ever found, and they protect me from the sun. I must own 8-10 of them now, and I am not ashamed to wear them. Even if they are in different colors, isn't that kind of like wearing a uniform? OK, maybe not quite, but still... One point with which I need to take issue, though. Even today's high-tech hooks rust out of a fish's mouth pretty quickly. Ghost nets catch and kill thousands of fish every year, but darned few pelagic fish die because they swim for a few days with a long stretch of line behind them in the water. It may be true that many of the anglers who hook big fish on spinning reels get spooled. Maybe not as many as you think, but even if it is that many, they are not killing fish. They may be wasting huge sums of money, of course, and they may infuriate other anglers. I can't really speak about that. Anyway, point taken.
OK, I still had this site up on my computer as I walked into my home office and I read your last post (wish I had not). So now I truly am "angry" cuz you are not a marine biologist to my knowledge nor a psychologist, that is obvious, and you have zero eveidence that today's "designer hooks rust out of a fish's mouth pretty quickly" (what is pretty quickly?). OK so when that large tuna that handed you your ass on the spin gear swims back to the school/pack or slows down during his night resting period with 200 to 300 yards of Spectra or Jap braided line trailing from his mouth along his body I am sure the odds of him or another tuna family member getting tail wrapped or wound up in the 80lb to 130lb stuff that cuts like a knife are pretty darn slim... yeah right (just like the other small whales, porpoise, sharks, turtles, birds, and numerous other marine species that are found dead every year wrapped in "fishing line" and how many do we not even know about that get eaten by sharks). The last time I checked the oceans of the world have "currents" and manmade **** can move thousands of miles from where they originally landed via strong currents. Fishing line is a part of fishing (a necessary evil if you will when talking in terms of pollution and marine life safety), but using it with reckless abandon when performing the sport is a personal choice. Seriously gotta get out of here cuz their are just too many cyber experts talking out of their rear ends here (or giving their opinions as some would say... ill advised or otherwise) and some are having just way too much FUN for this angler's "reality show". Enjoy the spotlight... Final Over & Out! PS: you and your brother can argue with this brilliant gentleman that actually knows what he is talking about via on the water "real life" experience and recorded data: http://www.mindfully.org/Plastic/Oce...lita1nov02.htm

This post edited by JigGrinder 08/28/2011
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Old 08-28-2011, 03:23 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Default re: 9/15 days jigging/popping trip on the Excel from Jan 22 to Feb 6, 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodless_Jim
Quote:
Originally Posted by t4freds
I might agree with you, "Rodless", on the technical aspects of
your "opinion"..............but!
I also feel that those with a different opinion than your's have the right to express them............it's an old American tradition.

The idea of popping/jigging is a method of fishing only.
Some might feel it's "purity" of the sport.
But, the main issue's are safety of flying hooks around a crowded boat, and that existing customers, and fellow fishermen are not
elbowed off the rail because of it.
Bob, you know better than that. I have always been all about people expressing their opinions. Doesn't matter if I agree with them or not. It is the suppression of ideas and innovation that bother me.

I wasn't suppressing anyone's opinion here, not JigGrinder's or anyone else's. I just asked---honestly---why he gets so angry thinking about people fishing spinners for big fish. And it's clear he is angry. I just don't see any cause for it.

As for people being elbowed off the rail, that's a hard one to say. Excel is the largest boat, with the most rail space. Plus, if you have seen the madhouse that ensues when the entire boat is throwing jigs for wahoo, it's hard to envision how a few people throwing poppers can either be a danger or can occupy too much room.

But that wasn't what JigGrinder was saying. He was expressing his sarcastic opinion repeatedly, determined to belittle a specific kind of fishing. It's a trip he won't be on, so I can't see why the idea offends him so much. Clearly it does, though, so I asked him why.
Elbowed off the rail was meant to indicate the eventual pushing of fishermen, who fish one way away from a boat, because of others who fish another way. In other words.....a boat who exludes all but those who fish in a particular manner.
All I said was everyone has a right to an opinion..........nothing about you supressing someone else's. But it was rather condenscending in it's nature, on your part......and as far as opinions, you did not seem to feel that way when I expressed my opinion about people bad mouthing my country from a previous post.


JigGrinder.......change is always a hard apple to eat. But, life is all about change. Think of the times you, or your cronies spent hours making new jigs, n' rigs. Experiment all the time.......never knew a fisherman who didn't experiment.
The only thing to do is move on, and catch fish the way you want, like everyone else.
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Old 08-28-2011, 03:23 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Default re: 9/15 days jigging/popping trip on the Excel from Jan 22 to Feb 6, 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by JigGrinder
OK, I still had this site up on my computer as I walked into my home office and I read your last post (wish I had not). So now I truly am "angry" cuz you are not a marine biologist to my knowledge nor a psychologist, that is obvious, and you have zero eveidence that today's "designer hooks rust out of a fish's mouth pretty quickly" (what is pretty quickly?). OK so when that large tuna that handed you your ass on the spin gear swims back to the school/pack or slows down during his night resting period with 200 to 300 yards of Spectra or Jap braided line trailing from his mouth along his body I am sure the odds of him or another tuna family member getting tail wrapped or wound up in the 80lb to 130lb stuff that cuts like kife are pretty darn slim... yeah right (just like the other small whales, porpoise, sharks, turtles, birds, and numerous other marine species that are found dead every year wrapped in "fishing line" and how many do we not even know about that get eating by sharks).

Seriously gotta get out of here cuz their are just too many cyber experts talking out of their rear ends here (or giving their opinions as some would say... ill advised or otherwise) and some are having just way too much FUN for this angler's "reality show". Enjoy the spotlight...

Final Over & Out!
No, I am not a Marine Biologist. My brother is. One of the world's most respected in his field, trained at SOEST in Hawaii. I am pretty sure my sources of information are better than yours. In fact, I know that they are.

I never challenged your opinion. I never accused you of spouting out of your rear end. I respected what you had to say even if I didn't agree with it...and I had the courtesy to tell you why.

Now I can say with absolute conviction, you don't have anything to support your belief. Just anger. Maybe Oakey was right, maybe it is just frustration. I don't know. I do know this, though, you should know whereof you speak before you call someone else's hand. I never claimed to be a cyber expert about anything at all. It's interesting that you should accuse me of that though. Wouldn't that make you a cyber expert too?

My disagreement with your point of view was honest and polite. I'm sorry you couldn't take it in that vein. Leave, stay, I don't care.
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