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Old 02-21-2012, 03:36 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Default re: RR3 Angler under investigation for selling fish

Quote:
Originally Posted by wallace
1) Can you tell me if it is legal or not legal to give away processed fish ?
If so....
2) Can we give the fish away but have our "friends" pay for the processing?

1....legal

2...giving away yet also being reimbursed for processing costs is also legal


bottom line....you can't profit off your fish and you can't expense the cost of your sport fishing trip
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Old 02-21-2012, 07:49 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Default re: RR3 Angler under investigation for selling fish

Quote:
Originally Posted by TAURUS
...you can't expense the cost of your sport fishing trip
Unless you take a customer or a few employees two with you.
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Old 02-21-2012, 09:57 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Default re: RR3 Angler under investigation for selling fish

Quote:
Originally Posted by TAURUS
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallace
1) Can you tell me if it is legal or not legal to give away processed fish ?
If so....
2) Can we give the fish away but have our "friends" pay for the processing?

1....legal

2...giving away yet also being reimbursed for processing costs is also legal


bottom line....you can't profit off your fish and you can't expense the cost of your sport fishing trip

I hope that you are right, Thanks for the answers, and You get an "A" in reading comprehension and a Gold Star for being a good guy. I knew all I had to do was ask a simple question.( a couple of times, Ha HA)
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Old 02-21-2012, 11:29 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Default re: RR3 Angler under investigation for selling fish

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodless_Jim
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakey520
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodless_Jim
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishybuzz
this will get some people's attention......mostly Mexican authorities .
It has. BIG time.
One would think Mexican authorities have a **** of a lot worse things to worry about then a guy selling some ten day old tuna out of his trunk.
The people here who are paying attention are convinced (for cultural reasons) that if the police caught one angler selling sport-caught fish, there must be hundreds who sell their fish illegally and don't get caught.Quit trying to make something out of nothing. There is a lot more to the story, but that is it in a nutshell. Many anglers won't understand or believe it, but this one news story has already caused enormous, and I mean ENORMOUS damage to the image of the long range fleet. It's not out in the open yet, but it will be. Elections are coming, and this kind of story generates the kind of headlines politicians want. For now, there is an angry, icy silence from a lot of people who have been...at least until now!...real and staunch friends of all San Diego-based anglers. As I said, it has caught the attention of the Mexican authorities in a big way.
Its funny,you can sell fish all day long in Mexico from a local sport fishing boat to resturants or who ever and no one bats an eye .But some guy sells a few pounds of tuna in Redondo beach and the media and every alarmist in town make it seem like a national security threat.STUPID!!!! The Mexican gov't could care less about this.They have there hands full with the 200 murders a day through out the country.Quit trying to make something out of nothing.

This post edited by gernsey 02/21/2012
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Old 02-22-2012, 06:35 AM   #45 (permalink)
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Default re: RR3 Angler under investigation for selling fish

Quote:
Originally Posted by gernsey
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodless_Jim
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakey520
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodless_Jim
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishybuzz
this will get some people's attention......mostly Mexican authorities .
It has. BIG time.

One would think Mexican authorities have a **** of a lot worse things to worry about then a guy selling some ten day old tuna out of his trunk.
The people here who are paying attention are convinced (for cultural reasons) that if the police caught one angler selling sport-caught fish, there must be hundreds who sell their fish illegally and don't get caught.Quit trying to make something out of nothing.

There is a lot more to the story, but that is it in a nutshell. Many anglers won't understand or believe it, but this one news story has already caused enormous, and I mean ENORMOUS damage to the image of the long range fleet. It's not out in the open yet, but it will be. Elections are coming, and this kind of story generates the kind of headlines politicians want.

For now, there is an angry, icy silence from a lot of people who have been...at least until now!...real and staunch friends of all San Diego-based anglers.

As I said, it has caught the attention of the Mexican authorities in a big way.

Its funny,you can sell fish all day long in Mexico from a local sport fishing boat to resturants or who ever and no one bats an eye .But some guy sells a few pounds of tuna in Redondo beach and the media and every alarmist in town make it seem like a national security threat.STUPID!!!! The Mexican gov't could care less about this.They have there hands full with the 200 murders a day through out the country.Quit trying to make something out of nothing.


I would tend to believe Tim Ekstrom and Rodless Jim on this as they both have a more direct involvement with this issue than you do. Just sayin...



Some words on this from Tim Ekstrom

There was a pretty disappointing news story that came out yesterday detailing a veteran long range angler coming off a January 15 day voyage being caught up in a CDFG investigation for selling his catch. Though this was not an angler that fished aboard Royal Star the circumstance does call for some broad reflection; we all have much at stake here.

I?m not going to get on a soap box and preach morality, we all have our share of transgressions punished and unpunished, I am simply going to make a sincere request for everyone to seriously consider the value of this fishery to ourselves and others looking forward. The long range fishery in Mexico is a privilege afforded to an extremely fortunate few. It is a privilege that can be taken away in the snap of two fingers by the Government of Mexico. Although we have forged strong relationships across the border as an industry we still have our share of detractors. The above mentioned negative news is the kind of cannon fodder such opponents are only too happy to receive; and even more happy to use.

...Please don?t succumb to any ideas about financially profiting from the product that comes from your long range trip. This is the kind of situation that creates inexpressible angst to those of us dependent on this fishery for our livelihood.
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Old 02-22-2012, 10:19 AM   #46 (permalink)
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Default re: RR3 Angler under investigation for selling fish

[quote=Oakey520][quote=Rodless_Jim][quote=Oakey520][quote=Rodless_Jim]
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishybuzz
this will get some people's attention......mostly Mexican authorities .

The people here who are paying attention are convinced (for cultural reasons) that if the police caught one angler selling sport-caught fish, there must be hundreds who sell their fish illegally and don't get caught.


Really??? That is like saying because some Mexican cops love the mordida, that ALL Mexican cops are that way. Weak position to take!!!!! Stupid even
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Old 02-22-2012, 11:23 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Default re: RR3 Angler under investigation for selling fish

Quote:
Originally Posted by conchydong
Quote:
Originally Posted by gernsey
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodless_Jim
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakey520
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodless_Jim
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishybuzz
this will get some people's attention......mostly Mexican authorities .
It has. BIG time.

One would think Mexican authorities have a **** of a lot worse things to worry about then a guy selling some ten day old tuna out of his trunk.
The people here who are paying attention are convinced (for cultural reasons) that if the police caught one angler selling sport-caught fish, there must be hundreds who sell their fish illegally and don't get caught.Quit trying to make something out of nothing.

There is a lot more to the story, but that is it in a nutshell. Many anglers won't understand or believe it, but this one news story has already caused enormous, and I mean ENORMOUS damage to the image of the long range fleet. It's not out in the open yet, but it will be. Elections are coming, and this kind of story generates the kind of headlines politicians want.

For now, there is an angry, icy silence from a lot of people who have been...at least until now!...real and staunch friends of all San Diego-based anglers.

As I said, it has caught the attention of the Mexican authorities in a big way.

Its funny,you can sell fish all day long in Mexico from a local sport fishing boat to resturants or who ever and no one bats an eye .But some guy sells a few pounds of tuna in Redondo beach and the media and every alarmist in town make it seem like a national security threat.STUPID!!!! The Mexican gov't could care less about this.They have there hands full with the 200 murders a day through out the country.Quit trying to make something out of nothing.


I would tend to believe Tim Ekstrom and Rodless Jim on this as they both have a more direct involvement with this issue than you do. Just sayin...



Some words on this from Tim Ekstrom

There was a pretty disappointing news story that came out yesterday detailing a veteran long range angler coming off a January 15 day voyage being caught up in a CDFG investigation for selling his catch. Though this was not an angler that fished aboard Royal Star the circumstance does call for some broad reflection; we all have much at stake here.

I?m not going to get on a soap box and preach morality, we all have our share of transgressions punished and unpunished, I am simply going to make a sincere request for everyone to seriously consider the value of this fishery to ourselves and others looking forward. The long range fishery in Mexico is a privilege afforded to an extremely fortunate few. It is a privilege that can be taken away in the snap of two fingers by the Government of Mexico. Although we have forged strong relationships across the border as an industry we still have our share of detractors. The above mentioned negative news is the kind of cannon fodder such opponents are only too happy to receive; and even more happy to use.

...Please don?t succumb to any ideas about financially profiting from the product that comes from your long range trip. This is the kind of situation that creates inexpressible angst to those of us dependent on this fishery for our livelihood.

I have a little experience with the subject.I have been living and running boats in Mexico for the past 30 years.If this had been a Mexican fireman selling fish in Ensanada we wouldn't be talking about it.
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Old 02-22-2012, 11:35 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Default re: RR3 Angler under investigation for selling fish

if it was a American fireman selling Mexican fish in Ensenada perhaps that would be in the paper....

there is a faction in Mexico that wants to shut down or at the very least really regulate American based recreational fishing Mexico has their tree huggers just like us......just saying.....I have been fishing in Mexico since 1967 and I can tell you that the climate towards us has changed dramatically over the past 10 years.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gernsey
Quote:
Originally Posted by conchydong
Quote:
Originally Posted by gernsey
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodless_Jim
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakey520
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodless_Jim
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishybuzz
this will get some people's attention......mostly Mexican authorities .
It has. BIG time.

One would think Mexican authorities have a **** of a lot worse things to worry about then a guy selling some ten day old tuna out of his trunk.
The people here who are paying attention are convinced (for cultural reasons) that if the police caught one angler selling sport-caught fish, there must be hundreds who sell their fish illegally and don't get caught.Quit trying to make something out of nothing.

There is a lot more to the story, but that is it in a nutshell. Many anglers won't understand or believe it, but this one news story has already caused enormous, and I mean ENORMOUS damage to the image of the long range fleet. It's not out in the open yet, but it will be. Elections are coming, and this kind of story generates the kind of headlines politicians want.

For now, there is an angry, icy silence from a lot of people who have been...at least until now!...real and staunch friends of all San Diego-based anglers.

As I said, it has caught the attention of the Mexican authorities in a big way.

Its funny,you can sell fish all day long in Mexico from a local sport fishing boat to resturants or who ever and no one bats an eye .But some guy sells a few pounds of tuna in Redondo beach and the media and every alarmist in town make it seem like a national security threat.STUPID!!!! The Mexican gov't could care less about this.They have there hands full with the 200 murders a day through out the country.Quit trying to make something out of nothing.


I would tend to believe Tim Ekstrom and Rodless Jim on this as they both have a more direct involvement with this issue than you do. Just sayin...



Some words on this from Tim Ekstrom

There was a pretty disappointing news story that came out yesterday detailing a veteran long range angler coming off a January 15 day voyage being caught up in a CDFG investigation for selling his catch. Though this was not an angler that fished aboard Royal Star the circumstance does call for some broad reflection; we all have much at stake here.

I?m not going to get on a soap box and preach morality, we all have our share of transgressions punished and unpunished, I am simply going to make a sincere request for everyone to seriously consider the value of this fishery to ourselves and others looking forward. The long range fishery in Mexico is a privilege afforded to an extremely fortunate few. It is a privilege that can be taken away in the snap of two fingers by the Government of Mexico. Although we have forged strong relationships across the border as an industry we still have our share of detractors. The above mentioned negative news is the kind of cannon fodder such opponents are only too happy to receive; and even more happy to use.

...Please don?t succumb to any ideas about financially profiting from the product that comes from your long range trip. This is the kind of situation that creates inexpressible angst to those of us dependent on this fishery for our livelihood.

I have a little experience with the subject.I have been living and running boats in Mexico for the past 30 years.If this had been a Mexican fireman selling fish in Ensanada we wouldn't be talking about it.
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Old 02-22-2012, 02:57 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Default re: RR3 Angler under investigation for selling fish

Quote:
Originally Posted by gernsey
Quote:
Originally Posted by conchydong
Quote:
Originally Posted by gernsey
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodless_Jim
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakey520
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodless_Jim
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishybuzz
this will get some people's attention......mostly Mexican authorities .
It has. BIG time.
One would think Mexican authorities have a **** of a lot worse things to worry about then a guy selling some ten day old tuna out of his trunk.
The people here who are paying attention are convinced (for cultural reasons) that if the police caught one angler selling sport-caught fish, there must be hundreds who sell their fish illegally and don't get caught.Quit trying to make something out of nothing. There is a lot more to the story, but that is it in a nutshell. Many anglers won't understand or believe it, but this one news story has already caused enormous, and I mean ENORMOUS damage to the image of the long range fleet. It's not out in the open yet, but it will be. Elections are coming, and this kind of story generates the kind of headlines politicians want. For now, there is an angry, icy silence from a lot of people who have been...at least until now!...real and staunch friends of all San Diego-based anglers. As I said, it has caught the attention of the Mexican authorities in a big way.
Its funny,you can sell fish all day long in Mexico from a local sport fishing boat to resturants or who ever and no one bats an eye .But some guy sells a few pounds of tuna in Redondo beach and the media and every alarmist in town make it seem like a national security threat.STUPID!!!! The Mexican gov't could care less about this.They have there hands full with the 200 murders a day through out the country.Quit trying to make something out of nothing.
I would tend to believe Tim Ekstrom and Rodless Jim on this as they both have a more direct involvement with this issue than you do. Just sayin... Some words on this from Tim Ekstrom There was a pretty disappointing news story that came out yesterday detailing a veteran long range angler coming off a January 15 day voyage being caught up in a CDFG investigation for selling his catch. Though this was not an angler that fished aboard Royal Star the circumstance does call for some broad reflection; we all have much at stake here. I?m not going to get on a soap box and preach morality, we all have our share of transgressions punished and unpunished, I am simply going to make a sincere request for everyone to seriously consider the value of this fishery to ourselves and others looking forward. The long range fishery in Mexico is a privilege afforded to an extremely fortunate few. It is a privilege that can be taken away in the snap of two fingers by the Government of Mexico. Although we have forged strong relationships across the border as an industry we still have our share of detractors. The above mentioned negative news is the kind of cannon fodder such opponents are only too happy to receive; and even more happy to use. ...Please don?t succumb to any ideas about financially profiting from the product that comes from your long range trip. This is the kind of situation that creates inexpressible angst to those of us dependent on this fishery for our livelihood.
I have a little experience with the subject.I have been living and running boats in Mexico for the past 30 years.If this had been a Mexican fireman selling fish in Ensanada we wouldn't be talking about it.
Guernsey's right, but he misses the point. Let me run it down for you all. There are people in Mexico, especially in Baja California (what we in the US call "Norte" as opposed to Baja California Sur), who believe sportfishing in Mexican waters should only take place from boats owned by Mexicans, and launched from Mexican ports. The biggest part of that is the "ports" part, because the ones who have the most political clout own the hotels and marinas that would benefit if Mexico stopped allowing US-based boats to fish in Mexican waters. They have maintained for years that the San Diego-based sport fishing fleet is actually a commercial operation, essentially stealing fish from local Mexican anglers (commercial or recreational) and selling the catch for an enormous profit in the US market. They have said exactly that in the media several times. Just last year, a Congressman from Baja California said the same thing in a floor debate, causing quite a ruckus until he admitted---days later---that he didn't have any evidence to prove his assertion. Now the people who would like to end sportfishing in Mexican waters by boats out of US ports don't really believe that the US sport boats are actually commercial boats in disguise. They have made the coastal fishermen believe it, of course (not that hard), and they have done their best to convince the Federal Government too (with limited success). It is simply a part of the pressure they try to maintain on the US businesses, and they do it for their own personal interests. It is, after all, a compelling lie, it can never be traced directly to the people who tell it, and if it encourages a few more relatively uneducated politicians to side with them in various regulatory votes, why not? At the end of the day, though, what it comes down to is a perception---on the part of a whole LOT of Mexicans---that US interlopers are somehow stealing their business/customers/fish. As long as anglers on US-based boats really stick to sport fishing, there's no story. As soon as there is some indication, however, that some US anglers are profiting on "Mexican" fish, there's a story, and it gets milked loudly. As for the legalities that Guernsey mentions, and the relative Mexican indifference to it, he's right...mostly. The Mexican Government doesn't give a good Goddamn if local Mexican sport anglers (or pangueros guiding tourists) sell their catch. It is against the law, of course, but there's just no perception of a crime. The fish is purchased in a Mexican market or by a Mexican restaurant, the profit is too little to tax, and it goes to a Mexican. Big yawn. That's not the case when it comes to foreign boats fishing commercially in Mexican waters. The basic attitude, regardless of legality, is that no one should be allowed to sell a fish caught in Mexican waters except a Mexican. As far as I know, foreign flag vessels can apply for commercial licenses to fish Mexican waters. It's possible that one or two have even received such permits...but I have never heard of one. Fishing for profit in Mexican waters is a Mexican game, and outsiders are definitely not invited. There are a very few, very wealthy people who own the commercial boats, and they will not tolerate anyone else on their patch. Nor will the Government. And so, any evidence, even anecdotal evidence, that anglers on US sport boats are profiting by selling their catch is big damned news, whether it makes the papers or not. The Mexican on the street? He would say "So what? If I caught that much fish, I would sell the excess too! Who cares?" But the political and business interests in Baja California have made sure that all of their pet politicians in Mexico City know all about it. It creates a lever to use against the sport fishing industry, and they are using it that way. How do I know this? Because I didn't find out about this story from reading it on the boards. No, I heard about it from a friend who is a senior aide to a Mexican Senator. Two hours later, another friend who works in Los Pinos (the Mexican White House) called me about it. I have advocated long and loudly about how the sportfishing (including the private boaters) are actually to Mexico's benefit, and I have maintained all along that our anglers do not sell their catch. Well guess what? Some people pretty high up are asking me directly if they should really believe what I told them. Got it?

This post edited by Rodless_Jim 02/22/2012
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Old 02-22-2012, 03:52 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Default re: RR3 Angler under investigation for selling fish

I rarely post on these boards now that I no longer make that great trip west for our annual long range fishing trip. My fishing experiences now are vicarious, mainly from reading the activities of others on these boards.

However, as a retired American diplomat I feel compelled to strongly support the information posted above by Rodless Jim.

In the intercourse between and among sovereign nations perception is reality. Jim has it exactly right. One incident of illegal selling of sport caught fish can become the impetus for a crusade by politicians seeking specific aims and goals.

I have seen the United States vilified for seemingly innocuous events that are publicized, often inaccurately, that led to riots and even wide-spread deaths in the name of political ends.

Could this single event of selling a few fish could lead to Mexican legislation banning U.S. sportfishing boats from Mexican waters? Probably not. However, never underestimate the power of malevolent politicians.

There are many Americans that see Mexico as an economic threat to U.S. by stealing jobs and U.S. politicians take every advantage of that thinking to win votes. By the same token, there are Mexican politicians who see it to their advantage to paint their powerful neighbor to the north as an economic threat stealing from good honest Mexicans.

If Rodless Jim has gotten queries about this event from persons at high levels in the Mexican government, it is an important political event ? period, full stop!

This single publicized event may fade away or it may become a cause celebre for some Mexican politician. We can but wait and see.

Should additional similar events occur and be publicized, then look out gang because the future of U.S. sporsfishing in Mexican waters very well may be at significant risk.

Just my opinion

OH
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